8/23/2005 12:45:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|My friend Deke says that the worst advertisement for Christianity is Christians.
Well nowhere is that so eloquently proven than by our pal Pat Robertson.
That's right, the leader of the Christian Coalition and the 700 Club has decided to take a stand against Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Robertson's Christian Message? Take him out.
"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United ... This is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
What the crap?!!
Is this the Christian thing to do? Is that how Jesus handled his problems? I love the fact that this guy is supposed to represent the moral majority and he's out there advocating the assassination of a world leader. Also, and this may not matter, but Chavez is not a strong-arm dictator, he's the legal democratically elected President of Venezuela. What's his crime? He's got a lot of oil, he's friends with Castro and he doesn't like America or George Bush. If that's all it takes there should be a lot more people on the hit list.
I guess the love thy neighbor as thyself and thou shalt not kill are pretty much optional in Christianity then.
He's an interesting connection - Robertson's comments appeared on his 700 Club show, broadcast on ABC. Just yesterday, the ABC affiliate in Salt Lake City, refused to air an anti-war ad featuring Cindy Sheehan, while the rest of the major networks did not. Hmmm... ABC the pro-war, anti-freedom, pro-assassination network - sounds good to me. I can't imagine why anyone would dislike America.
So is Robertson a nutcase or is he simply willing to say what other CC's are thinking? Is this the kind of foreign policy we can look forward to? Well I guess illegal wars to oust regime's we don't like, who also have a lot of oil, certainly falls in line with our existing tactics.
This of course is beyond stupid and idiotic, but it speaks to the larger issue of bad Christian marketing. So here we have a religious/political leader advocating assassination as foreign policy, add that to national leaders trying to pass of religious versions of life on earth as science as well as open discrimination toward homosexuals, bombing of abortion clinics, character assassination of anyone who disagrees with the church or the government and intentionally polarizing the nation along religious lines(terri schaivo, ten commandments etc.). This doesn't even include things like priest sex abuse.
So all told, these guys have not done a very good job of promoting the principles of life that Jesus advocated. In fact, they sound more and more like a hate group. So I guess it should surprise no one that there is a bill being presented in Canada that would list the Bible as hate literature and those who use it to discriminate or threaten homosexuals would be open to criminal prosecution. Read about it here. Frankly if you've read the Koran, you could probably throw that one in here right along with the Bible.
In Leviticus, it DOES say that men who lie with mankind as with womankind are an abomination and should be put to death - sounds pretty hateful to me. Which brings us to another point - if this is something the Christians feel they need to embrace as a policy why are they not doing as God commands and killing these people outright? Doesn't that show a supreme lack of faith and conviction? Shouldn't all Christians be willing to suffer death or life imprisonment for following the teachings of their scriptures? No? Then we're right back where we started with cherry picking your beliefs and rampant hypocrisy.
Riddle me this? If Christians are at liberty to interpret or adhere to what scriptures they choose based on the convenience of it, then where the hell do they get off claiming ANYTHING must be done because God or the Bible commands it. ?
I've got three words for you HYPOCRITE, HYPOCRITE, HYPOCRITE.
In all fairness, Christianity as a philosophy has many wonderful elements that would make the world a wonderful place if any of them were actually followed. But as it stands the only thing followed is intolerance and hate. When you have religious leaders calling for assassination we can pretty much assume the baby got thrown out with the bathwater. So the teachings of Jesus seem to be further and further away from the role that many Christians actually practice.
So it looks to me like Deke was right. Christians are their own worst advertisement. I think I'll stick with my current beliefs. Freethinkers only hate stupidity, but certainly not enough to kill anyone over.
|W|P|112481120789790606|W|P|Who Would Jesus Assassinate?|W|P|8/23/2005 1:52 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Who Would Jesus Assasinate? Jesus would assassinate...
...oh, wait. That was rhetorical, right?
I like your friend Deke's saying. I visited your site early this morning, didn't see a new post, browsed the Net for awhile, saw this news on CNN.com, and immediately returned to your site, knowing full well you'd be using this one.
Can you please tell me where I can move, outside of the U.S.? Who'll take me when I say, "Yeah, I'm from the United States, but I want to change citizenship." It's funny that so many Americans have been concerned with immigrants...I think other countries will begin to concern themselves with U.S. citizens immigrating to their countries. We are so elitist here.
Rudicus, I still say we can get married and run off to Italy together. We can own a farm, with a small vineyard, and Coldplay heard faintly from the outdoor speakers on the veranda. As long as Sade's set up as #2 on the CD changer. (Scoffs. CD changer?! I'm so 20th century. Who needs a CD changer when you have ITunes!)8/23/2005 1:54 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I just re-read my comment. I (obviously) got off-topic very quickly. I'm desperate...it comes out in my words. I'm not discussing this post or its merits because I'm preoccupied with racing thoughts of moving AS FAR AWAY AS I CAN GET FROM THIS GOD-FORSAKEN COUNTRY AND ITS "LEADERS".
Somebody help me!!!8/23/2005 2:25 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I hear you, Canada is calling me every week.
I'm amazed that after a year of doing this site, I'm still able to be shocked and awed by people.
I wonder if I'll ever run out of things to write about.
You know, this whole liberal-conservative, republican-democrat thing may just devolve into sane-insane.
If I could legitimately get out of America and still make a living, I would - seriously.8/23/2005 2:26 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I also had a meeting this morning so I couldn't get my post up right away.8/23/2005 3:18 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|Christians here don't seem to be too much of a nuiscance, and do things like offer a place of niceness to people wanting to rid themselves of drug habits etc...
Is this just a front or is something just seriously wrong with America?
I liked the title.8/23/2005 3:27 PM|W|P|
Um isn't there a christian belief that jesus brought a new covenant and that the whole old testament LAW thingy was no longer valid? So why do Christians keep turning to the Old Testment to find out what to do? And maybe they should stop being so damn selective about it---if there gona use the OT for a guide shouldn't they follow the dietery and dress codes? Now that would be fun...I luv me that old timey religion...animal And human sacrifices. ;)8/23/2005 3:40 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Glod, I can't say whether or not it's a front, but my gut says it's not. I'd like to offer an idea: let's compare those U.S. leaders who call themselves Conservative Christians to extremist Muslims, such as al Qaeda. "Those" Christians are not representative of Christ's values or teachings, so please do not look to them for a true understanding of the doctrines of Christianity. Jesus (Christus) had/has meaning to many...those who study and attempt to embody that meaning are Christians. It's true that you can tell a Christian by "the fruit of the[ir] Spirit". Pat Robertson, at least, has been led astray.
I'm not sure why there are so many extremists in the U.S. I think U.S. culture fosters an ideal foundation for this type of person: YOU should be #1, YOU deserve, YOU are right, YOU are allowed, YOU, YOU, YOU. We are very self-serving, which - in my humble opinion - heads the opposite direction of Christ and servanthood. In addition, this self-serving culture at its roots has Christian religion interwoven into its lawmaking. The "Christian" United States is simply a powderkeg with a lit fuse waiting to explode.
I think it was Intelligent Design to write into law the separation of church and state...I just think we need to actually separate church and state.
So I guess, to summarize, the answer is, "Yes, there's just something wrong with America."8/23/2005 3:42 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|yeah, what a crackpot. You have to wonder if the dollars will stop flowing, or if donations will increase because of this.8/23/2005 8:02 PM|W|P|Martian Anthropologist|W|P|That damn book contradicts itself. I mean, even in the new testament, the apostle Paul says some pretty harsh stuff.8/23/2005 11:48 PM|W|P|Tom Harper|W|P|Hey, don't laugh. You said "there should be a lot more people on the hit list." Don't worry, there are. This administration is so secretive, only a tiny bit of their perversity gets out to the public.
If this is what gets out, just imagine what we don't know. Don't even go there.8/24/2005 7:25 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|Considering the violence inherent in most of the bible, I'm not really that shocked by this.
And considering the source, I'm quite amused.
What bothers me is how the knee jerk reaction in the states when someone doesn't like them, and makes it clear is "punish the heathen". Gee, worked well with Fidel.
Chavez knows he has a card he can play, and frankly, I hope he plays it. Not quite so super when the needed resources are provided.
And send Pat down there to be the assassin. See how far he gets...
ah, I needed the laugh. Come to Canada Rud....we'll stuff you full of poutine...8/24/2005 12:10 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|There's definatly a bit in the new part of the bible about not having to follow the rules for food (like forbidden pork etc), it happened in someones dream and God told them.
They probably overturned the other stuff seperartly, to spread out the shock of the revelations.
Thanks Qob for your answers.8/29/2005 4:57 PM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|People are told they should believe it and are afraid to stand up for themselves. So secretly they are repulsed by it, but repeat it so many times for appearance they eventually believe it. Then they grow old and senile, and you have Pat Robertson.10/15/2005 8:49 AM|W|P|
i found here searching for the word affiliate gambling sports and your site was listed high on the word affiliate gambling sports
affiliate gambling sports10/15/2005 10:28 PM|W|P|Johnjon|W|P|I discuss this topic daily myself. I also have a website that talks about affiliate affiliate marketing related things. Go check it out if you get a chance.8/22/2005 09:51:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|For awhile now we've been seeing a on-going war between scientific thinkers who view natural selection and evolution as the accepted theory of life on earth and the people who favor the ridiculous, yet strongly held belief in creationism - which is basically the literal events of the book of Genesis.
Well since the creationism idea wasn't taking hold, despite years of politicking and sneaking like putting disclaimer stickers on textbooks and such, the creationist minded folks came up with a new cause de celebre - intelligent design.
In a nutshell, Intelligent Design postulates that aspects of life are too complex to have come about by natural selection or evolutionary science or biology and thus must have an intelligent design source. ID supporter are quick to say (in an effort to deflect creationism in sheeps clothing attacks) that ID does not specify what the intelligence is. (Let's come back to that)
So basically, these folks cannot believe that life evolved from a complex interaction between natural forces, but have no problem believing that some guy went "abracadabra" and made everything.
The concept of ID requires some form of "higher" intelligence to have designed life on earth. So who or what is the intelligence? By their own assertions, it could be God, Zeus, Hera, Klingons, pink unicorns or blue monkeys. But somewhere along the line some form of intelligence must have designed everything because we can't currently answer every minute question. Well part of that is true, but part of it isn't.
Natural Selection is a theory that has massive support and mountains of observable data that support it. ID does not - all it has is some unanswered questions that some folks have decided requires an intelligent designer vs. just questions we have as yet been unable to answer.
Remember, it wasn't all that long ago that people widely believed that illness was based on an imbalance of humors and that bleeding was the way to fix it. Of course this was before bacteria and germs were discovered so it seemed like a good idea at the time. Today of course we know differently, but only after time and science caught up enough to answer the question.
So back to the concept of ID. Do we really believe that ID supporters would be just as happy to have aliens be the intelligent designers as God? If the idea of being descended from a monkey is such a huge affront, how are they going to feel about being cooked up in a Petri dish in some alien lab on Helion Prime?
If ID we're merely proposing an intelligent designer and not leaning toward anyone in particular, why do you suppose that the vast majority of ID supporters are all Christian Conservatives that would gleefully support creationism being taught in schools if they hadn't ruled against it?
ID recently got a boost when a pillar of the science community George W. Bush came out in support of it. This is of course the same guy who doesn't believe we have a global warming problem or any environmental issues that need addressing.
What kind of message does this send to kids who look at the president who tells them to ignore science and rationality in favor of a cockamamie scheme?
Now we've got our pal Bill Frist jumping into the mix with his own support for teaching ID in schools. This is a Harvard educated medical doctor we're talking about now. Of course this same renowned physician also testified that Terri Schaivo (a blind woman with severe brain damage) interacted with people in a meaningful way and responded to visual stimuli.
Now didn't Frist just buck the president by supporting stem cell research because it was a "matter of science" guess what bro, so is this! You can't support science one day and then scoff at it the next - this is a perfect example of the hypocrisy of this entire debate. All of the these ID supporters have absolutely no trouble taking medicine, listening to weather reports, getting surgery or launching missiles all based on the exact same science that yielded evolution.
So what's the problem? The problem is that ID is simply bad science used to counter evolution, a theory which explains life without giving credit to God. So we're going to happily call the ID supporters on their claim that their idea is even worthy of the title of theory, much less be a competitive theory for natural selection worthy of being taught in schools. ID supporters themselves concede that "You can't prove intelligent design by experiment". How convenient. But here again, that very idea means that ID is not science at all, so holding it up against a real scientific theory is like comparing the bible to actual archaeological evidence...hmmm.
It's complete crap people. I'll be the first one to go on record and admit I was wrong if they ever succeed in offering a shred of proof for this hogwash. As for Frist, I'm sure this was simply a political tactic to make up for the stem cell thing - at best he's pandering to the Christian Right in the hopes of saving his 2008 presidential bid or at worst to keep Bush from sending Karl Rove after him.
So to sum up, ID is complete malarky, but I assume they will succeed in getting it into classrooms as an alternative theory, which will only succeeding making children in those states even dumber that they already are and increase our status as most hated nation as well as educational laughingstock of the first world. Nice work.|W|P|112472245446213574|W|P|Intelligent Design Evolves!|W|P|8/22/2005 2:18 PM|W|P|Ken Grandlund|W|P|I agree that ID is just religion in scientific clothing, and go a step further and say that it's just Christian religion in scientific clothing.
And while I have no problem with comparative religion classes in general, confusing the ideas with science seem to be quite absurd.
Teach ID alongside other religious dogma and teach science alongside other science.
I think that people will be able to draw their own conclusions about how life got here without having to teach science and religion side by side as if they were intellectual equals.
Good post.8/22/2005 2:50 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is there any scientific evidence that ID is NOT a possibility? Not arguing, just wondering. I've been raised to believe creationism is valid as a theory, so this entire post has my mind racing. I want to know more.8/22/2005 2:50 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Thanks, and I agree with you - I have no problem teaching this stuff as part of a philosophy sections of a class or some kind of comparitive religion elective - that way you could include stories of Osiris, Coyote and many others.8/22/2005 3:02 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|QOB,
Absolutely not - ID is an absolute possibility, but God as the intelligent designer has an equal chance as Zeus, Aliens or the Flying Spaghetti monster to be the one.
As for creationism - if you are referring to Genesis literalists who beleive that the earth was literally created in 6 days on a tuesday in October 6000 years ago, then there is plenty of evidence that that is not a possibility - UNLESS you dispute the entire validity of the field of science - in which case you are at your liberty to do so.
Also for future reference in any philosophical discussion it is widely held that you cannot prove a negative - i.e. prove that God doesn't exist or prove that the Flying spaghetti Monster didn't create California. In any argument, the burden of proof is upon the asserter.
In this case Darwin asserts naturla selection as his theory and bases it on the scientific method. And while his theory is not perfect and someday may even be proved wrong someday, it is nonetheless the most valid and accepted. With ID, there is no evidence or scientific evidence to support the theory, it merely had unanswered questions that the ID supported answer with a supreme being of some sort.
There are creationist groups that purport to have "evidence" or scientific proof that "suggests" ID, but as with the theory itself, it is based on ntohing but supposition and conjecture.
Why God couldn't come down and say "here I am" and then take credit for everything he did is beyond me - it would make everyones lives easier and would end alot of strife immediatelty.8/22/2005 3:14 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|Oh good, you knew about the FSM. Hilarious letter that is.
But seriously... I only see this as a new tactic to advance the religious agenda. There are too many of us who are starting to shun recognized religion, and this is the new way of forcing the ideals onto younger generations in order to keep the numbers up.
Before we know it, if things keep going this way, we'll see burning of Darwin's books as it conflicts with religion just as the native americans were killed and their religious icons burned because it was different when christian settlers moved in on the new world.8/22/2005 7:41 PM|W|P|Codesuidae|W|P|Bush didn't exactly come out and say that he thinks ID should be taught in science classrooms. When asked he basicly said that the option should be taught, and I have to agree. He didn't say in what class, or in what manner it should be taught, just that students ought to be given the information.
I wouldn't read too much into his statements about it, his comments were the kind of answer that is intended to not piss of either side.
As for the merit of ID, well, it seems to me that it's material for a discussion in a philosophy class, but not much more than that. The reasons for its existance are obvious.
I can understand the fear that motivates those who are pushing ID into schools as an 'alternative' to evolution. They see 'science' as something that is pushing children away from their traditional belief system. They see that by taking advantage of what the children see as a credible source, they can lend their ideas equal credibility.
Some children will see this for what it is and dismiss it outright. Others will see it as an authority supporting (possibly grudgingly) the possibility of the alternative, which agrees with what they were taught in Sunday school.
The danger is that it almost necessarily supports the false idea the science and religion are at odds. The students are smart, but not experianced. They will understand that they are being told about ID in a science class because it is supported by the major religions. They might not understand that they don't have to choose, the two ideas co-exist quite peacefully.
Incidentally, historically speaking, it is unlikely that the ancient Greek gods could have been the designers in question, considering that they stole the world from the Titans.
Regarding proving a negative. This is not impossible. For example, its not difficult to prove the non-existance of a 100 megaton underground nuclear test at any given location on Earth in the last few decades. Such an event would create unmistakeable signs that many countries are set up to monitor.
Negatives that are difficult to prove are generally difficult because they involve exaustive searchs of the universe. For example, 'Faries do not exist' makes the claim that would require inspecting the entire universe to show it to be true or false. This is the sort of negative that claims of the nonexistance about gods entail.
I don't think the ideas of science are in any danger of being scrubbed out by religious zealots, its a field that provides quite a lot of answers that can be very effectively applied. Religions provide answers as well, but in different areas.
Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this plays out. It is my hope that some rational thinkers will agree to move ID into schools and place it firmly in the field in which it belongs, philosophy. This would require that an intro to philosophy course become part of the required course list in schools, which can only be a good thing.8/23/2005 10:16 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|ID was brought up to a degree in the catholic schools I attended, but from what I recall, it was firmly in religon class, NOT in science. Even then, everyone I knew laughed about the idea.8/23/2005 11:46 AM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I've given this just a day's worth of thought and here's what I came up with: science cannot evolve until the definitions - defining lines - are removed and the absolutes are stripped. I wonder if a scientist who operates fully and completely within the defined lines of our current scientific "truths" could ever begin to research or analyze or consider possibilities outside said "truths"...and when someone stops considering all possibilities, they can't expand. I feel as if I don't have the vocabulary to effectively communicate my thought, so here's an example: let's say there's a realm of good and evil that effects all things. How would we begin to research around this theory if we never consider it, and how would we ever consider it considering it's so far outside current scientific "truths"? I think it would be wise for science to become more fluid. Just as it would be wise for humanity, religion, people to become more fluid.
Again, this was all just a thought. I haven't considered much past this intial thought. Just wanted to share and open it up for others' consideration.
My father, one of the wisest people I know, once said to me: As I get older, the only thing I know for certain is that I don't know anything for certain.8/23/2005 12:24 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I thought Socrates said that?
In any event you are correct, most likely the scientists would not go looking for God or an intelligent designer like that. My understanding is that there are faith-based scientists that are looking for things like that, so perhaps they will find something.
But as it stand, it wouldn't be a scientific study at present becuase there isn't anything to suggest a way to scientifically study the existence of a higher power - currently that idea is purely philosophical and has not been postulated how that being or what have you might exist within the confines of our universe. So until then it's pure speculation that is currently untestable, so a scientist would really be able to do much even if they wanted to.
Some day perhaps - maybe after we discover how to build fusion reactors or warp drives or teleporters, we may be in a better position to theorize.8/23/2005 2:21 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I guess what I mean is that if you say science is "THIS", then you don't allow for scient to be "THAT". It may be "THAT". We only believe we know. You really got me Rudicus, when you spoke about absolutes. So I guess scientists, even, would be wise to remember that...that there are no absolutes. None. (And I'm sure a fluid vantage of that statement would allow you to reconcile that statement to itself. It's only seemingly contradictory.)8/23/2005 3:25 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|http://www.venganza.org/ is quite funny.
I like reading through ID sites and countering all the arguments. Though I doubt they'd listen if I told them. Maybe I should make another site, almost identical in design but about science.8/23/2005 5:48 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|This is one of the sites I like, Geese Aplenty. Greg does not post often about heavy issues, but I liked his take on this issue.8/24/2005 1:31 PM|W|P|Codesuidae|W|P|"science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves." -Richard Feynman
That's probably the most insightful definition I've ever read about what science is. Scientists are just people who do research, any research, using methods that, when used properly, make it harder to fool themselves. There aren't any boundaries set by 'truth' or accepted principles. There are discription of events that we see are never wrong (these discriptions of what is are called laws) and there are theories about why events occurs.
If you see boundaries in scientific research, they are either boundaries of credibility or limits on your creativity.10/11/2005 7:30 PM|W|P|Editor Choice|W|P|Many Thanks for your nice blog. I will come back.
I wanted just to mention an interesting site about Religions. With more than 500 pages, Religion News and Articles:Religion Universe: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Taoism (Daoism) and many others8/19/2005 12:31:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I thought it would be a nice thing to do going into the weekend to highlight some Blogs by TRR readers so you guys can go visit them and give them some traffic and comments.
If you have the time and interest, please visit these guys and give them some love - and make sure to let them know where you came from.
21st Century Gonzo
An ongoing story written by TLR starring ME(well a pumped up even cooler version of me - if that's possible)! It's a good story and is just starting to pick up steam, so now's a good time to get in on it.
A political site written by different political bloggers around the blogosphere. Always something interesting.
This is QOB's site - it's very cool and fun and easy to participate.
The Bulldog Manifesto
Bulldog raises some major political points and has some very compelling arguments about what's really going on in this country. Start with this post.
The Master Smiled
This is a great site - Dushan is the next Lao Tzu.
The Martian Anthropologist
This is also a great political site made even greater by the comments of a wild cast of characters ranging across the political spectrum.
Tragically Deep Thoughts
This is a cool site that is a personal blog but it's about a guy who has a great perspective(and interesting life) and represents a viewpoint that is different from many other blogs - go check him out, you'll probably learn something.
And finally, buy Phoenix's book so she can get some gas money.
That's all - please take some time if you have it and visit these folks.|W|P|112447292319486546|W|P|Friends of The Rudicus Report|W|P|8/19/2005 1:20 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|One day, about a month ago, I found myself reading 21st Century Gonzo. I remember thinking, "Oh my God, Rudicus is scary crazy man!"
I've been looking for that site for the past couple of days. (I couldn't remember the name or how I'd gotten there the first time.) Now that I've spent more time around these here parts, I'm not so intimidated by the image being painted in that story. It's a great read. Thanks for the link.
P.S. I'm asking forgiveness for the past couple of days of comments. I have come down off the 'high' I was on. I've put my soapbox away. I've grounded myself. (I re-read some of what I'd written, and it reminded me of my children when they want attention: "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!")8/19/2005 1:23 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|It's what we're all here for after all - people don't post in public forums if they don't want someone to read it. We all go in cycles and I'm sure we can all put up with each other soapboxing fro time to time.
That said I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in your posts.8/19/2005 1:33 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|That said I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in your posts.
that a good or a bad thing? :P8/19/2005 1:35 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I meant out of the ordinary for her as in nothing crazy like8/19/2005 1:39 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|oh, and the Martian ROCKS! Finally caused my lazy butt to link to him....8/19/2005 5:00 PM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|Thanks for the feedback Rudicus, and I couldn't possibly pump you up or make you cooler than you are.
qob : he is a crazy man but only scary when he's crazy.
I've also read and linked Martian, since he keeps my Republican side balanced.8/19/2005 5:08 PM|W|P|Defiant Symmetry|W|P|Thanks for the feedback and the link, that means so much to a "young" blogger like me. I continue to learn from the expertise of people like you.8/19/2005 8:59 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|Thanks for the link Rudicus.
I could really use that gas money. ;-)8/20/2005 9:37 PM|W|P|Martian Anthropologist|W|P|Bitchin'. Thanks for the link, Rudicus, and the nice comments, guys.8/21/2005 1:39 PM|W|P|dushan|W|P|k, you rock, I rock, we all rock. let's join and start a rock band! ;-)8/21/2005 1:39 PM|W|P|dushan|W|P|no seriously: Thanks!!! :-)8/22/2005 6:12 AM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|Thought you may get a kick out of this:
http://chaoscenter.blogspot.com/2005/08/coming-soon-to-bookstore-near-you.html8/19/2005 09:02:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|It seems like the activist judges who adjudicate within the law (terri schaivo and the like) are reviled, while activist judges who adjudicate within their own belief system are A-OK. Well it comes as no surprise to me that the judges who ACTUALLY judge within the law never seem to get overturned, but the ones who attempt to impose their own religious or moral beliefs on others from the bench seem to get consistently overruled.
When we hear about the so-called "activist judges" we now know what that means - anyone who doesn't support the President, Republican controlled Government or the Moral Right.
Well now we can score another one for truth, justice and the "real" American way (which is freedom btw).
Remember this crazy story?
For those who don't recall or don't have time to re-read - this is the couple who was getting divorced and the judge told them they couldn't expose their 10 year old son to their religion of Wicca - even though both parents were in agreement on that point.
Well tough luck buddy, the law saved another person from being subject to one person's views about religion - which is why we have freedom of religion and separation of church and state in the first place - this is how it is supposed to work folks.
"In its unanimous ruling, the court declared that a Marion County judge was out of bounds in approving a divorce decree that also directed the parents to shelter their 10 year old son from non mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."*
Thanks for playing.
Not much else to say, but it's nice to see the law actually working for a change.
The only odd thing is the article ends with this line:
"Wiccan beliefs center around the balance of nature and a reverence for the earth. They do not worship Satan."*
What's that about. I agree its important to define Wicca, but do people actually think that Wiccans worship Satan? Or perhaps it's that people think anyone not Christian is a pagan and all pagans worship the Devil. Of course I'm reminded that I have people in my office who think Judaism is a pagan religion, but have no problem associating decorating Christmas trees(a pagan ceremony from a pagan religion) with Christianity.
Take the time to find out about other people, places and belief systems - it might open your eyes...oh I forgot, asking questions and being exposed to other faiths may make you question yours - never mind, stay ignorant, its safer that way.
*quotes courtesy of The Indianapolis Star by Michele McNeil|W|P|112446123750844380|W|P|Overruled!|W|P|8/19/2005 11:14 AM|W|P|Martian Anthropologist|W|P|Regarding that judge: Unbelievable. The Wiccan belief system/religion is actually a very tolerant, kind belief system.8/19/2005 6:39 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|Wicca was the ONLY "religon" I was ever vaguely drawn to. But I remember my father being VERY nervous about his 13 year old daughter reading into it.
I found it a gentle, respectful belief system that put much emphasis on personal responsibility...While I personally had no use for it in the long run, I absolutely would support my daughters if they became witches. They'd be nice to people based on the rule of three. Good enough for me.8/19/2005 9:04 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|I'm glad they told that Judge where he could shove his ruling.
Now if we could just get the mandatory mental screening for all children deemed unconstitutional...10/11/2005 10:33 AM|W|P|Editor Choice|W|P|Quality blog, enjoyed it. I will comeback.
I wanted just to mention an interesting site regarding: Religions, with more than 500 pages, Religion News and Articles Religion Universe: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Taoism (Daoism) and many others8/18/2005 09:30:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|We all know by now that Americans are too fat. For whatever reason we are tipping the scales at an alarming rate. In addition to all the health problems and health care costs associated with American Obesity, we now have to deal with a new wrinkle.
Americans are so fat that airlines are having to remove lifevests from planes to accomodate. That's a good sign. So I guess if we crash, I'll have to use the guy next to me for buoyancy since I won't have a vest. Already Southwest Airlines is requiring extra large flyers to purchase two seats to compensate.
The problem is not just in the room needed to fit XXL folks onto the plane, but the added weight is causing all sorts of havoc with the plane physics by throwing off the weight differential and several other weight based calculations.
Passenger weight is most important on small planes where the weight can produce a much bigger strain on engines. A 2003 small plane crash in North Carolina that killed all 21 people aboard was blamed on excess passenger weight.
I realize that this is just another in a long string of stories and complications based on American weight. Everybody and their brother is coming out with explanations and ideas for slimming folks down - but I honestly don't think anything will make a difference.
Yesterday some soda producers group announced a plan to limit or remove the selling of sodas to schools (well actually it's only to grammer schools and middle schools - high schools can have all the soda they like). Most consider this little more than a token gesture, but it highlights what I believe is the true issue; our culture is killing us.
The culture operates in a way that is completely counterproductive to health. We spend most of our lives at our desks, the rest of the time we spend eating or watching television or sitting at our deska on the internet. We drive everywhere (even from one store to the next in the same parking lot). We get very little exercise, very little sleep and everything is rushed and hurried - we don't even have time to sit back and enjoy a meal, let alone prepare one. So as a result, most of our food is fast too AND it's all pre-packaged so it's loaded with sugar and salt. Want to have some fun? Next time you are in the grocery store (a regular one, not a health food store) try and find a loaf of bread that doesn't have high fructose corn syrup as one of the ingredients.
But what's the alternative - you can't walk anywhere unless you live in a few select cities, you can't work less hours, you don't have the time to prepare healthful and nutritious meals - either because you don't have time to shop, prep, cook and clean OR you don't really want to have to go through all that everyday because you have so little free time and such high stress as it is.
Half the time you can't even get anything healthy for lunch even if you wanted to. Where I work, I'd have to drive more than 30 minutes to find a restaurant that offered any variety of healthy choices - and then by the time I got there I wouldn't have time to eat anyway.
Nothing in our current culture makes it easy to be healthy and it's only getting worse. Everyday people have less and less time and fewer and fewer options. The only way we are ever going to change is if we completly change our approach to culture, work and food. And as radical an upheaval as that may be, it is not unlike the lifestyle in many parts of the world. Unfortunately our culture is corrupting other cultures and turning them into ours. Now all the people in these other countries are starting to get as fat as we are.
Since I don't think we are going to change as a culture the only thing you can really do is change yourself and your life, which unfortunately is not easy. Until then you might want to pack your own lifevest along with your own lunch next time you are on a plane somewhere.|W|P|112437552099547663|W|P|American Obesity is Large and In Charge.|W|P|8/18/2005 9:45 AM|W|P|8/18/2005 10:17 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Obsessed is the right word - oddly, most of the overweight people I know have invested hundreds if not thousands in diets, exercise equipment, books and all the trimmings, yet they are still where they are. The health industry is making a killing, but people are still where they are.
So I would suggest that all of that stuff doesn't work OR none of it is enough to overcome our culture.8/18/2005 10:33 AM|W|P|Trey Desolay|W|P|And portion sizes. What the average American considers to be a "portion" could feed a village.
The "fitness obsession" is just another example of the return of the repressed. We're obsessed with the trappings of health and fitness exactly because we are so starved for health and fitness, just as we flock to mega-churches exactly because we are so starved for anything like genuine spiritual experience.8/18/2005 12:32 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|And that obsession with health and fitness is causing other problems, especially in young women. Eating disorders, and desperate attempts to meet an impossible goal that is glamorized by society.
SO this is where I say it. Me... I'm fat. And if you don't like it, you don't have to look.
I've had to basically tell my own parents that it is my body. Yeah, I don't like the extra pounds, but at the same time I'm not going to endanger my health chasing some useless fad diet. And I've learned that for me I can't excercise for excercise's sake. But I can excercise in the form of a social life, hence dancing.
Strangely... I have been shaping up with my social life and having as much control as I can over my food.
ANd I ain't dieting :-)8/18/2005 12:34 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Good for you - we all have to do what we can on our own - since we aren't going to get any help from society.8/18/2005 12:46 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Ooh, Trey - very profound! Honestly.
About fifth grade, my parents started a two-year Burger-King-for-every-meal binge. I could put away a Whopper (not Jr.), a LARGE fry, and a soft drink without batting an eye. All while seated in front of the tube.
It took me years to develop skills for healthy eating. I buy much of my food from Trader Joe's now, so as not to incur the hormones in my meat, eggs, or milk. We eat, on average, five servings of fruit and veggies a day, which isn't enough. Our bread is a crushed wheat sourdough. The kids' cereal is from TJ's, as well, and lacks much of the artificial crap in chain grocery stores. I usually make one dinner per week with red meat, and the rest are vegetarian or have chicken, turkey, or fish - again, all hormone-free. I try and make at least two salads per week, and use at least five different veggies - we always use spinach in place of lettuce, and sometimes add arugula.
I don't generally buy soda, chips, cookies, ice cream, or other junk food. Our junk food is nuts, all-fruit leathers, jerky, carrots, apples, oranges, whole-wheat crackers (similar to triscuits, but without the trans fats), edamame, hard-boiled eggs, cucumbers, soy-flaxseed chips, etc.
Oh, wait, you didn't ask for our personal eating habits, did you? Sorry, I'm actually just so proud for how far I've come!! (Cue the spotlight and dramatic "just won an oscar" music...)8/18/2005 12:47 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Yeah, good for you, Phoenix!8/18/2005 2:09 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|QOB, that's an awesome diet - if everyone ate that way and got exercise - we woulnd't be where we are, alas most folks don't have the time, energy or money to do all that. It still seems weird to me that it cost 3 times as much to eat a real piece of food than it does to eat a fake one.8/18/2005 2:30 PM|W|P|
Is part of the reason the reason we seem so crazy is that our diet is so full of stuff that is processed to no end?8/18/2005 2:39 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|You could be more right than you know - I don't think it is too surprising that many "cure" for different diseases include eating all-natural and/or raw foods.
A good friend of mine Has MS and she changed her diet to include only whole foods, raw foods and natural foods and suddenly her symptoms were gone and have been for several years now.
The downside and the one faced by everyone who tries to eat this way is that it is next to impossible to have a normal social life and continue to do so.8/18/2005 2:50 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|and you sometimes have to wonder if there is a control issue.
the healthy food is more expensive, and some can't afford it. So we grow fat on the fake food because we can actually afford it, and then suffer from health issues that can shorten life spans.
Not to go conspiracy theorist on ya, but when the poor die off from ill health at younger ages they don't have the numbers to fight the policies pushed through by the rich.8/18/2005 3:03 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Well...remember my post about advertising in the "black" neighborhoods from last week - I'm sure it is no small cooincidence that obesity and the associated health challenges are even more prevalent in predominatly black communities as well as in communities with "poor" demographics.8/18/2005 3:28 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I've been saying the following for years: It's not as hard to eat healthy foods as people seem to think.
I will narrow that statement further by adding: in Portland.
I have been a single mother with a single income (no child support) that is meager for today's 30-year-old, for almost three years now. I only just recently acquired a "roommate". And I have been eating this way the entire time, including the 10 months I recently spent (during that same time) unemployed (with only six of those months bringing unemployment insurance). I'm not the woman with well-to-do parents to support her, or well-funded savings accounts. I'm the mom who'll eat top ramen for a week, if necessary. But for the most part, shopping at Trader Joe's and Winco, EATING SMALLER PORTIONS, and not eating out are all part of THE CHOICE I MAKE THAT HEALTH COMES BEFORE MANY OTHER THINGS. Sure, we can't go on vacations to Disneyland - and barely camping, these days - but we eat well, I'm instilling healthy eating habits, and that's on the top of my parenting priority list. Especially when you're poor, you MUST recognize the need to prioritize. When you have limited funds, figure out your priorities and let your dollar demonstrate where your priorities fall. We all do it; I just think it's especially important for people with less money, especially when you're raising children.
So following that thought process, I'm about to move close to work (downtown), near a bus route, sell my car (because it's costing around $700/mo. just to own), watch WAY LESS television, and start showing my children their city and the culture here in Portland, limited as it may be. I want to expose them to more, I want their education to be enriched (which shouldn't come primarily from the public school classroom), and this is how I'm demonstrating, to them and to the world, my priorities.8/19/2005 12:39 AM|W|P|Big Dog|W|P|Good post. Where there's a will there's a way. I have lost weight and improved health by following these simple steps: Eat small, eat smart, exercise (walking is fine) 30 minutes per day. Plus obvious stuff like minimal TV and Internet. Simple formula. But you have to take charge of your own life, which is sometimes the hardest part.8/19/2005 4:01 AM|W|P|dushan|W|P|Seems like I am becoming a little American lately... ;-)8/19/2005 6:02 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|My Condolensces Dushan.8/19/2005 11:32 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I'm fat, and I'm lazy. I don't have time to eat well, or I don't make the time. But the options? I go to buy juice, and I get more pop for less money. I get more full from crap than good food.
But now I have kids, and I'm running out of pant sizes.
I eat shit, and I have bad CokcCola habit. But I quit smoking. I totally support an extra tax on crappy food. Level the playing field. Make crap food just has expensive as fruit. Take it out of schools. Why do the vending machines NEED to be full of junk?
IT's like when I explain to the Dorf that a portion on chicken is a deck of cards. I may as well tell him I have a penis on my kneecap. He doesn't believe me. We've come to associate large portions with value.
I'm lucky to live somewhere that I can walk, and so I'm starting to walk to and from work, about 1.5hrs a day. But I've been to the US-I remember Houston-we wanted to go to the resturant across the freeway. Took about 45 minutes to walk around to get to something directly across from the hotel....sad.8/19/2005 11:40 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|It's crazy alright. When I was in Europe, people walked everywhere even to the next town and the portion sizes were about half the size.
But then they don't have the space that we do here in the U.S. and Canada.
It's very difficult (contrary to QOB's exceptional exception) to maintain a healthy lifestyle - it requires alot of willpower, which unfortunately time and inconvenience often get the better of.
Keep plugging away though.10/08/2005 4:31 AM|W|P|
here, keep up the good work! check out giant food10/08/2005 5:10 AM|W|P|Tom Naka|W|P|Hi i am totally blown away with the blogs people have created its so much fun to read alot of good info and you have also one of the best blogs !! Have some time check my link of small business health insurance florida
.4/25/2006 12:28 PM|W|P|Julia Kendrick|W|P|me4/25/2006 12:36 PM|W|P|Julia Kendrick|W|P|I think that it is sad that people are so over weight that they have to make crazy change to accomidate obese people. I feel like I need to loose weight and it is important to be healthy but sometimes people just sit back and let themselves go. I know that I have gained 10 lbs every years since the 5yth grad and I am 18 now and I weigh 195. I never thought that I would be this close to 200lbs and now I know that I need to excersise. I dropped down to 190 but now I am back at 195, I know that I refuse to be 200lbs and only 18 years old. I have to make some changes but I must say it was easier putting the weight on. I find myself depressed because I feel un attractive and over weight and that can be difficult in a relationship. I haqve pushed a lot of nice guys away because I could not take compliments and I kept downing my self. I dont want to be the lady that has to purchase the two seats on a plane. Americans need to make a change now!8/17/2005 09:08:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|In a small town in South Carolina, the Town Council decided it would be a good idea to pray to Jesus before each meeting. Unfortunately that's a very clear violation of separation of church and state, so Darla Wynne, a self proclaimed Wiccan Priestess sued the town and won.
The town was ordered to cease and desist. They decided to appeal the decision (why I have no idea) and took it all the way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court however, decided not to hear the case - thus the ruling would stand.
Now in addition to incurring the costs of their own battle, the town is also on the hook for Darla Wynne's legal fees which amount to about $65,000. Unfortunately the town, who's population is only about 2,200 doesn't have that kind of money.
The kicker is that if they hadn't taken the appeal all the way to the Supreme Court, their fees would have been a fraction of what they currently are.
Now why would this town go to all that trouble when they had no case? It wasn't like this wasn't a crystal clear case of violation - invoking Jesus before official town meetings absolutely presents one religion over others. So to me the town gets what it deserves and they'll have to have an awful lot of church bake sales to pay for this.
But a larger point is the idea that this would be an ok thing to do in the first place. It leaves me a little skeptical when I hear certain groups of Christians crying persecution (which I'm sure they will do over this as well) and then turning around and crying about the media and the homosexual agenda.
I don't know about you, but I don't recall any stories about the Provincetown Town Council making everyone engage in gay sex before town meetings. Also, and I hate to break this to you, but gays are not trying to turn everyone else gay. There is a big fat whopping difference between people trying to get equal treatment and people trying to get people to join a club.
The problem here is twofold - To certain groups of Christians, separation of church and state is a joke - since they don't recognize any other religion as valid. Secondly, they feel it is their responsibility to convert everyone to their way of thinking. This is exactly what separation of church and state AND freedom of religion is all about.
It means that everyone in this country is free to practice or not practice any religion that they see fit. It also means that they are free from discomfort, persecution, discrimination, or forced indoctrination and propaganda in public (especially government) places and activities. When you have a captive audience and they don't have the option of not participating without consequences - then that is a violation.
I guarantee you that if someone suggested praying toward Mecca or worshipping Satan at this Town Council meeting - all hell would have broken loose.
So practice what you want to practice and believe what you want to believe, but keep it to yourself and your associates in private and nobody will get hurt. Civilization survived and thrived for thousands of years before Jesus and will be just fine from here on out for the people who don't believe in him - so by all means keep praying, but leave everyone else out of it unless they ask.
On a side note. Why is it do you think that these folks keep losing these separation of church and state battles? Wouldn't it be in God or Jesus' best interest to pull some strings and get this stuff through? Why do you think they don't? Don't you think Moses doing the stick to snakes trick would get some votes in the senate or influence the courts? It would seem strange to me if my deity couldn't be bothered to get out of bed long enough to give me a hand in spreading his gospel and protect me from heathens and activist judges. Food for thought.|W|P|112428770898302405|W|P|My Friend Wicca.|W|P|8/17/2005 12:04 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|Why in hell do they NEED to force their prayers down throats anyway?
But it also seemed to me that this entire argument needs to be treated much the same as I treat my toddler. When she annoys me, I ignore her until she stops. All these lawsuits just inflame the issues for no good apparent issue. Again, things become pissing matches.
Everyone has an opinion, and they'll take it to court because they can, instead of just ignoring it. Is it wrong? Yeah. Will anything change? Unlikely, until the town is run by a different generation....
I don't know...just seems so bloody moronic...8/17/2005 2:52 PM|W|P|The Bulldog Manifesto|W|P|Nice post Rudicus. For some reason, these same people speak highly of the US Constitution when they obviously have ignored the Establishment Clause.
You cant love the Constitution and not recognize the Establishment Clause. It goes part and parcel with the Constitution.8/17/2005 2:54 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I don't know, these guys have been cherry picking their beliefs for years - this is just more of the same.
On another note, I'm pissed because I had a really great comment for your post today and the damn thing crashed on me as I was posting. GRRRR!
Thanks for stopping by.8/17/2005 2:54 PM|W|P|Defiant Symmetry|W|P|Thanks for saying what many won't say, and seeing what others are too blind to see.8/17/2005 3:28 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|It has been my experience that many Christians believe the US was intended to be a Christian state. Therefore, in conversations between each other, you'll hear these same Christians defending - using this example - praying before a town hall meeting as "the way it was intended". They want these things to occur because they DO NOT like the current government, laws, regulations, constitution, etc. being used against what they believe to be the original agenda. I believe, if many American Christians got real with themselves and the rest of the country, they'd stand up and say, "Yes, I want only Christian laws, I want a country who's constitution dictates Christian religion...", etc. That's why they took it all the way, that's why you hear what you hear from those Christians who make ME look bad by claiming the same label. The problem is, they cloak these thoughts and this agenda in empty words and promises - lies, really. And now what do we have? Everyone say it with me...HYPOCRISY.
I promise that most of the Christians who have made a public name for themselves, if asked, and when being honest and truthful, would say they'd like a Christian state and they'd like anyone who doesn't like that to find somewhere else to live.
THAT IS SO *NOT* CHRISTIAN.8/17/2005 3:40 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|QOB, if you're gunning to be a guest poster on The Rudicus Report, you're doing very well!
Personally I would be happier if they WOULD just come out and say it.
If they said look, we were kind of being sissies before, but yes we DO want a Christian Theocracy in this country. Then I would be happy to leave them be. If they can get the votes and overturn the Establishment Clause then - so be it (mind you if that ever happened I'd be in the first bus to Thordora's house).
But this whole passive aggressive thing where they "innocently" but blatantly scoff the existing law and then cry persecution when they get denied.
This is still the semblance of a Democracy after all - if they can get the votes, then more power to them. Same thing with Roe vs. Wade if they can get the votes on the Supreme court then so be it. But until then, please try and be nice and get along with everyone.8/17/2005 3:53 PM|W|P|Roximoon|W|P|Hmm I have to admit.. It is interesting. You have to admit that that town had some balls to take the case all the way to the supreme court. Though they didn't hear the case ( which was probably due to some other previous ruling already outlining the judgement in a separate case and so precident was set already) It did get attention.. I think more peopl need to understand that they are free to practice any religion they wish as long as they dont press it upon others!8/17/2005 4:03 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Without being disparaging, roximoon, I *do not* agree that it took balls. I agree it was smug, arrogant, and self-serving. I believe it was monolithic, which is exactly what I despise in the American representation of Christianity.8/17/2005 4:32 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|wonder if they'll burn her at the stake...
I mean, the way it's going it wouldn't surprise me if some radical churches decided that the old way of dealing with non-christians is better.8/17/2005 4:42 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Hmm...interesting thought, Phoenix. Damn Christians! Makin' me look bad!
P.S. Rudicus, thanks for all the compliments. I truly enjoy coming here and discussing with you and Thordora and Phoenix et al. I think everyone brings something different to the table, but unlike many other arenas, we're able to remain respectful.8/17/2005 4:44 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I think we need to come up with a new name for you QOB - since Christian is now tainted. got any ideas?
There's another woman that comments on Martian's site - that reminds me of you, so you are not alone.8/19/2005 11:28 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|QOB is totally right. It's so rare to have discussions without it turning into
I'm trying to save my brain from baby induced fog, and you guys help!10/11/2005 11:07 AM|W|P|Editor Choice|W|P|Many Thanks for your nice blog. I will come back.
I wanted just to mention an interesting site regarding: Religions, with more than 500 pages, Religion News and Articles Religion Universe: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Taoism (Daoism) and many others8/16/2005 08:50:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I'll probably get a lot of flak for this post.
As you may be aware the Gaza pullout began yesterday and ends tonight at midnight. The Israeli government has decided to leave all 21 settlements in the Gaza strip and 4 in the West Bank territory.
As expected, many folks are not happy with this move - some for political reasons and some because they live in the soon to be removed settlements.
I can completely empathize and sympathize with these folks. Being evicted from your home - a home you may have lived in for 25 years has got to be awful. To be forced out of your home and off your land through no fault of your own must be heart breaking.
As I listened to NPR this morning, I got to hear first hand the anguish of the Jewish settlers who were being forced to leave. As I listened to this one woman sobbing on the air, she reiterated the unfairness of being evicted from her home and being forced off her land.
Here's where the hypocrisy comes in.
Let's flashback to 1948 when another group of people were experiencing the same kind of anguish and heartbreak; The Palestinians. That's right, in very much the same way, thousands of Palestinians were forced out of their homes and off their lands to create the Jewish state of Israel.
So while I feel for these folks, it kind of falls a little flat when you consider the history of the region.
Now I understand the desire to create a Jewish state - especially after the holocaust, so somebody would have to move to accommodate that, but fair is fair, The Palestinians deserve to have a country of their own as well. And given their own history, the Israelis should be the first ones in line to help them get it - that's fair.
The positive thing here is that it's the Israeli government themselves that are doing the pullout - and whatever their reasons are - good for them. If some kind of peace can be achieved over there where everyone can get along at least superficially, then everyone wins. If the Israelis want to build a wall - who cares, let them. Let the Israelis have their wall and the Palestinians have their country. Reasonable people can live in peace, unreasonable people only deal in absolutes and cannot live in peace. The Palestinians are going to have to crack down on Hamas just like the Israelis have to crack down on militant settlers, but by taking action and working together - who knows you might actually get along if everyone could put their dogma down for 5 seconds.
If these guys can actually work it out, we might actually get some semblance of peace and harmony in the middle east despite what Emperor Bush is doing to cock it up.
So to all the settlers that are bellyaching and fighting against this - I feel your pain, but knock it off. It sucks, but please leave peacefully and remember that you are helping the Palestinians get a country, the same way the world helped you get one in 1948. Even if the Palestinians aren't acting in the best way either - be the bigger country.
Remember, nobody wins a pissing contest because you both end up covered in piss.|W|P|112420030746009660|W|P|The Gaza Pullout Leaves Hypocrisy In It's Wake.|W|P|8/16/2005 10:22 AM|W|P|AVA|W|P|I sooo agree. I have to admit I feel almost no pity at all for these guys, since the land they're leaving didn't exactly belong to them at the time when they established their home there. Peace in the Middle East is way far away from happening, but this is a good step, the best one in years.8/16/2005 1:18 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I always contended that they should have been given Germany-take the land from the people who tried to destroy them.
I agree-who wants to be covered in piss? When I was younger, I remember asking my Dad why these groups couldn't just leave eachother the fuck alone, and just draw a line of sorts.
I remember he couldn't really answer that question, aside from something muttered about boys and men.....8/16/2005 4:01 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|no flak, this really is a good thing.8/16/2005 6:17 PM|W|P|Jez|W|P|In my opinion, peace will only really exist the day there is a multinational and multi-faith(including non-believers)state in Israel's place.
Palestinians are not all Muslims. True, not all Israelis are Jews, but Israel is 'the jewish state' and it's very name defines it as jewish.
In this light, Israel is no more a democracy than the Islamic Republic of Iran.8/17/2005 12:01 AM|W|P|Ken Grandlund|W|P|these are good thoughts Rudicus, but let me pose a question here:
Is you substitute Palestinians with Native American Indians and Israelis with Americans, do you feel the same way? You should, and perhaps you do, because it's really the same thing. Something to think about though, isn't it. Should traditional tribal lands be returned to the native tribes, even though in their culture, land ownership was a foreign concept?
Middle Eastern history has seen then Jewish people shuffling from region to region for millenia now and having a single country is important, especially when the different religions can't or don't want to make efforts to co-exist.
But to displace others, is as you say, bound to come back and get you.
Were the Palestinians truly interested in security though, they'd make better efforts to rein in the terrorists in their midst instead of pretending that they don't exist. Let's hope that they choose this path as Israel returns something the ill gotten gift of land that belonged to others.8/17/2005 6:19 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I actually do feel the same way. On the one hand I don't think it is really valid to lay claim to lands for historical reasons, since people have been overrun and displaced by wars for millenia, but at the same time if you are going to do it for one then you should do it for all - and I can support that.
If they took several plains states and gave them back to the tribes, I would be supportive of that - it would certainly make Native american culture more viable and would give them a true economy to work with - I know that will never happen, much in the same way that the Aboriginies will probably never get any land back in Australia.
All I'm saying is that if the Israelis are ok with pushing the Palestinians out to make their country, then they have alot of nerve getting upset when the Palestinians want to get their own country too.
In this particular case since the pushing is being done by the Israeli gov't it has a very different feel. But the Palestinians have got to reign in Hamas and other militant groups otherwise Israel will be justified in keeping them in whatever configuration provides the most safety.8/17/2005 7:35 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I was thinking about this post as I watched the news this morning, and came to the conclusion that regardless of anyone growing up and trying to do the "right" thing, there will ALWAYS be some idiot on one side or the other that will start shit again...
and I'm with Rudicus. Here in Canada, there is plenty of room to give back to our tribes, and I don't understand why more isn't given. I've lived next to reserves, and it NOT living. Being "corralled" in a space is not free living.
At the same time, I feel bad for both sides. There is no easy answer, and someone will be pained....
good post Rudicus-hopefully it inspires more intelligent responses like Ken and the others....8/17/2005 7:37 AM|W|P|
Let's get the facts together: The Israeli army is protecting Israelis AND Arabs. Where are Arab forces doing similar?8/17/2005 10:48 AM|W|P|Ken Grandlund|W|P|i can agree with you here, and was merely playing devil's advocate. One thought though...not all native americans hail from the plains states, and our reservation system seems to understand that.
american indians have historically gotten a raw deal all the way around. I'd sure like to see that situation change sometime soon.8/17/2005 10:57 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Well I can certainly get behind that - I agree the Native Americans and other native peoples have been getting shafted since 1492. Since there is no possibility of all Americans going back to their ancestral homelands, I figured the plains state was the closest approximation.
I am glad that some tribes are able to take some money back through casinos and such - assuming the mob hasn't taken it all first.8/17/2005 12:18 PM|W|P|cube|W|P|After the Isreali settlers pull out, the Palestinians will have no excuse not to co-exist peacefully.
Don't remember who said it, "Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Let's hope they don't blow this one.8/19/2005 8:55 AM|W|P|Hannah Gerber|W|P|No flak from me. I totally agree!8/15/2005 09:30:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I stopped saying "now I've seen everything" a long time ago, since I'm painfully aware that I will NEVER see everything. But this one is something else.
A Dallas company has been hawking a fancy gadget to help God's Marketers easily explain the story of Christ - it's called The Evangecube.
This nifty device is based on the concept for the Rubik's Cube and allows the intended victim (I mean future parishioner) the ability to learn about Jesus without having to be able to read or think.
Here's how it works.
Say what you want. It's a clever idea or a neat marketing gimmick, but to me this is just another unscrupulous tactic no different than using a cute and cool camel to sell cigarettes to kids.
Where else but with Christianity could a company go out and market a product that has not been proven to be effective or even exist, and not only are they free to misrepresent or outright lie about their product, but are free to use the most underhanded and unscrupulous marketing tactics available. Think I'm being too harsh - let's have a look.
I'm going to create a new product called Salvation - it is an herbal supplement that gives you a feeling of euphoria. Now, I'm trying to sell you this product, but I don't even have a sample to show you, I just have literature about it. In fact I can't even prove that my product exists and it is generally not supported by the scientific community. If this was an actual product, I would be barred from making any claims about the product and if I tried to sell a product that could not even be established as existing, I'd be arrested and charged with fraud and running a confidence scheme.
But that's not all - let's say I got past all of the above, but now I go out and market my product to people who are in the most emotionally vulnerable times in their lives(adolescence, divorce, illness, grief, depression) and sell them on my supplement making all sorts of wild claims that it will relieve them of all their current pain. Again, if this had been a real product I'd be off to jail. In addition, I make it my practice to travel around the world hawking my product to groups of people who are uneducated and illiterate and again make all sorts of wild claims and then tell them they must accept it and buy my product even though they can't even make a rational decision because they can't even read the literature or investigate the claims AND there is nothing to regulate or authenticate my product. Under these same conditions a person would not even be able to make a legally binding contract.
On top of all this, I'm telling people that they will spend eternity in a gruesome torture filled horror show if they don't buy my product. I'm off to jail again, since that, folks, is called extortion.
That's right our old pal Hypocrisy has come to visit. Where else could you have a product that's very existence is unproven, with a sales force that routinely and happily uses manipulation, coercion, misrepresentation, fraud and extortion, but you can't even claim a vitamin (which is food) has any therapeutic effect or health benefit without going through years and years of product tests, review panels and government approvals.
This Evangecube is just another in a long line of tools used to dupe the unwashed stupid masses.
I'm sorry, but when you hold your cough syrup to a higher standard than your deity, something really really wrong is going on.|W|P|112411622632835122|W|P|Even If You Are Uneducated and Illiterate, You Can Still Find Jesus With The Evangecube!|W|P|8/15/2005 10:06 AM|W|P|Ailyn|W|P|i love it!8/15/2005 11:15 AM|W|P|8/15/2005 11:45 AM|W|P|Codesuidae|W|P|Say you had a population of mostly uneducated people that you could see needed to be controlled in some sustainable way. Lets say also that you are a pretty smart guy and have some powerful, smart friends in key places. You can see that people in general are pretty cliquish and distrustful or hateful of outsiders, and that something needs to be done to solve this problem.
You know that strong government isn't a good long term solution, its vulnerable to all kinds of threats, bad rulers, beauracratic paralisis, overthows, etc. Its obvious that laws just aren't a good way to control people in the long term. What you need is some kind of self-organizing, self-propagating philosophy of love and harmony that even the stupid morons that seem to make up more than their fair share of the population can 'get'.
Obviously it would be best if you could use a philosophy based in truth, rationality and moderation, but that kinda stuff is really hard to sell to morons. Morons really need to have a strong but benevolent ruler of some kind, one that is ever-present and can punish, but isn't accessable enough to ever show a weakness of any kind.
Sounds a lot like the major religions of the world doesn't it?
While I don't think religion is the best solution to allow people to live in harmony with each other and the world, I think its the only one we've got that has a chance at wide-spread acceptance. The replacement philosophies are hard for many people to understand, and harder to really get fired up about so that they have the self-sustaining nature of religion.
As long as we humans have our animal nature I think we'll need religion, mostly so that our less gifted members can live in peace and happiness. Its like Santa Claus for adults. Better watch out, he knows if you've been bad or good, so be good for Goodness' sake.8/15/2005 12:47 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|you make a good point codesuidae, but how effective is it, even right now?
I mean we got those people who commit a crime, and then immediately turn and say that God made them do it, or the devil made them do it.
Or we get to a point where people are openly persecuted because some preacher who had a bad childhood says that group-x is bad.
That's where the most uneducated are ending up. Being fed hate filled bs because they aren't educated enough to know better.
So while I agree that when used for good religion can do good, but if we allow hate-filled people to preach to the uneducated masses then it only serves evil.8/15/2005 1:13 PM|W|P|aBitWicked|W|P|i think and think and never come out with brilliant selling ideas.. hahahaha8/15/2005 4:18 PM|W|P|Elli|W|P|Muhaha! This just absolutely made my day! After running through Cologne, my city, the whole day, seeing crazy Christians everywhere, (the new Pope Benedict is coming for a visit soon...) eating together, loving their next and so on, this was exactly what I needed! ;-)8/15/2005 4:46 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|"Morons really need to have a strong but benevolent ruler of some kind, one that is ever-present and can punish, but isn't accessable enough to ever show a weakness of any kind."
"...I think we'll need religion, mostly so that our less gifted members can live in peace and happiness."
Just pulling out some choice quotes.8/15/2005 8:41 PM|W|P|Codesuidae|W|P|Thanks for the kind comments.
I'd have to say that as a control device, or a social moderator, religion is extrordinarly effective. It is true that we still have social problems, and I have no doubt we will continue to, for as long as we are free people.
But consider the vast numbers of people who use religion as their primary source of hope and inspiration. What would the world be like if these people did not feel that there was a powerful entity in perfect control of their lives? How would they act if they believed there was no absolute moral standard?
I'm sure there are other possible stable social configurations in a human society, however, religion is what we've got, and with something like 80% or more of the population reporting that they are believers, it will be a very long time before that changes, if ever.8/16/2005 12:39 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I would agree with you that using one's belief in a creator to control or moderate anything is wrong. I would also argue that an intelligent study of Christ's purpose and life and "religion" would lead to the same conclusion. Christ should be the basis of Christianity. Not rules and regulations stemming from the ideas of the people surrounding Christ at the time, or since. But Christ. HE is my study. HE is the basis for my religion, my belief in a creator.
This is a difficult argument to make, because you say, "What would the world be like if these people did not feel that there was a powerful entity in perfect control of their lives?" And my retort would be, whether or not "these people" feel there was a powerful entity does not negate the powerful entity. If He IS, then He IS, regardless of your belief in Him, or anyone else's. Beyond that, I do not believe He is in control of my life. That would negate free will. I'm not sure how it's all woven together (which is something more Christians need to stand up and admit). I just know, experientially, that God is playing an active role in my life.
I also think a person's experience on this planet consists of that person's beliefs. What do you believe? That's what drives your experiences. And to me, the experience of life is much more important and fulfilling than the laws and physics of life. I can do nothing to change or influence the facts of life, but much to change or influence the experience of life.
I think the problem lies in people "using" religion. Yes, I agree that some people "use" religion. They use it to step up on their "moral" high ground and discriminate, judge, exploit, segregate, institutionalize, and the list goes on and on. I believe in a creator, but I also believe in free will, and I cannot "use" my creator to push my personal agenda. I'll stand up and say, "It's all me!"8/16/2005 1:19 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Hooray for QOB!!
This is the kind of "testimony" and "evangelism" I can get behind.
Dogma & Agenda free belief
Outstanding.8/17/2005 7:45 AM|W|P|dushan|W|P|1. Find a need. (The more basic the need is the better.)
2. Offer to fulfill that need.
3. Close a deal.
4. Fulfill that need
* temporarily or
* in a way generating new needs.
5. Repeat from 2.
(quoting myself)10/09/2005 9:45 PM|W|P|Tom Naka|W|P|Just thought i would say hi from Japan. Doing some blog surfing and found your site. Im looking for some cool styles of natural health resource
for my own blog. Theres some really amazing blogs about. if you have time check out my site you will find information on natural health resource
. Well when i get my blog running hope you come and check it out.8/12/2005 08:47:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Living in Downtown Atlanta, you get to see a lot of disparity between neighborhoods and people as the city has been undergoing a facelift and more and more people return to the city from the suburbs. On the one hand this has added a very nice feel to downtown and produced a lot of colorful neighborhoods each with their own particular character.
Obviously it wasn't always like that - in my neighborhood, it used to be a pretty "bad" area and there are still pockets of questionability, but on the whole, it is developing into another fun diverse place.
Before I moved downtown, I too lived in a suburb where everything was cookie cutter, but in the year since I moved downtown, I've seen a fairly startling disparity in the businesses and advertising between neighborhoods.
Nowhere is this more stark than in the areas we can generally term "black" neighborhoods.
I know a lot of times politically motivated people like to talk about oppression and "the man" keeping people down, and I also know this is old news, but I never really saw it so clearly as I do now.
Where I live, I traditionally travel through two different "black" areas when I'm going from place to place, and just like the suburbs I noticed that they too had some cookie cutter things of their own - unfortunately they weren't very positive.
These neighborhoods both have an extremely high concentration of fast food places, but very few actual restaurants. In this one area there were 7 different fast food options, but only one sit down restaurant. There also weren't any grocery stores, only convenience stores. The rest of the stores weren't much better; a dollar store, several check cashing places, a few garages, gas stations, convenience stores, several liquor stores and hair places. On top of this, the liquor stores seemed to be in the best locations. Then there was the advertising. All of the posted ads and billboard ads (of which there were many more than any downtown neighborhood) were all for cigarettes or booze. The gas prices were all higher and when I took money out of the ATM the fees were also higher than in other areas of the city.
Now if you go just a few miles up the road, it's the exact opposite. There is only one place you could even possibly call fast food and the area is covered with independent shops, theatres, independent restaurants as well as lots of pedestrian friendly walking and "hanging out" areas. The homes are nicer and they just opened up a new shopping plaza with a big grocery store. Also there are no billboards in the area, and even the ones that are in other places are mostly for cars and new homes.
So what does this say? Is it simply a money issue? Do some neighborhoods have a wealthier population who demand that ads not be placed every 5 feet and don't zone for all these fast food and liquor store places? Or is it something else? Can we look at the businesses and advertising and say they are simply serving their market? But what does it say when across the board the market is only for things that are supremely unhealthy? What message does that send to a population when your strategy is to bombard them with advertising and then only sell the things you advertise? If you are a kid and you are hanging around in the street(because there is no park, and even if there was one it probably wouldn't be safe) and you look around you and the streets look dirtier and more cruddy than the ones just a few miles up the road that they just installed nice terra cotta bricks for accent color and also installed designer street lights and loads of trees. And then you look around at the 4 billboards and one is for menthol cigarettes(the worst ones of all), the other for cognac(that you can't afford), another for malt liquor beer(with the highest alcohol content of all beers) and the last with a huge image of a bacon double cheseburger(the most unhealthy of all the fast foods) - and those are in all the stores around you - where do you think you are going to go and what do you think you are going to get?
And why would the gas and the banking fees be more than in other places? Especially if the area is more economically depressed? If the prices are flexible, wouldn't it be more socially responsible to lower the prices so people could live reasonably and save some money? If not, if the strategy seems to be to charge more to the people who can least afford it - what might the purpose of that be?
If I told you I wanted to oppress a population, but do it without being overt and I said I was going to keep the people living in unattractive areas that looked dirty and hopeless and then get them hooked on cigarettes and booze so not only do they stay addicted, but they spend any money the have feeding their booze and cigarette habit. Then we surround them with only the worst food choices (which anyone who has seen Super-Size Me, will know how super healthy that is) and on top of that we jack up the prices for basic services so we catch any extra income they may have - and there you go - a population that is fat, strung out and depressed - and most importantly, out of the way.
This kind of approach has been going on since the civil rights movement. And if you look at urban dynamics, those areas only improve (or get gentrified) once the rich white people move in and the poor blacks and Hispanics get moved out. Suddenly you have nice houses, new developments, clean well paved streets and new grocery stores.
So is it just about business or is it "the man"?|W|P|112385451097859961|W|P|A Marketing Conspiracy or Business As Usual?|W|P|8/12/2005 9:52 AM|W|P|
(I personally don't think people are smart enough to create vast conspiracies ala "the illuminata" que spooky music.)
Am I making any kind of sense? or am i talking crazy moon language?8/12/2005 12:42 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Lots of sense...no crazy moon language.
However, I will say that...someone very, very close to me was...in the military...and have personal stories of...being part of conspiracies. That's all I'll say.
So I'm not so sure I agree with the idea that the current depressed state of the mentioned neighborhoods was not a thoughtfully devised plan. Smart enough - no. But I would argue that it's not intelligence fueling this fire, this plan, but rather selfishness, vanity, power, and greed.8/12/2005 2:26 PM|W|P|Ack|W|P|If not, if the strategy seems to be to charge more to the people who can least afford it - what might the purpose of that be?
Cause you charge what the market can bear. since the wealthy are going to drive to get money, why would they drive to pay a dollar for ATM fee when they can drive 2 more minutes and save that dollar? if you have a pedestrian based market, charge what your competitors are charging or offer a better service.
Is the marketing a crappy thing to do? yeah, probably. would pervasive advertising for a Salad Bar be effective in the short term in that market? probably not. Its about branding and it will take years / decades of "unbrainwashing" to resolve it to your satisfaction. So start working in politics and make some changes!!8/12/2005 3:42 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|You know as well as I do that politicians can't make changes.8/12/2005 7:48 PM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|For the record, fast food is not as bad is it is made out to be, especially with Super Size Me.
" Inspired by the documentary "Super Size Me," Merab Morgan decided to give a fast-food-only diet a try. The construction worker and mother of two ate only at McDonald's for 90 days - and dropped 37 pounds in the
process. It was a vastly different outcome than what happened in the documentary to filmmaker Morgan Spurlock, who put on 30 pounds and saw his health deteriorate after 5,000 calories a day of nothing but McDonald's food...
Physiology & exercise play a huge role in this. My dad explained it to me. He said 30-40 years ago, when he was a teenager, people ate a lot worse than they did now, but in his community there were a lot of farms, etc. And on the whole people were a lot healthier because they did more manual labor.
Although I have to admit, fresh food is much better for you. Combining that with exercise is the really smart thing :)8/13/2005 9:40 AM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|People never believed me about "The Man" but it's true.
Actually this is the perfect example of select marketing based on biased "demographics" to a captive audience.10/11/2005 11:53 AM|W|P|tom naka|W|P|Just thought i would say hi from Japan. Doing some blog surfing and found your site. Im looking for some cool styles of korean restaurant for my own blog. Theres some really amazing blogs about. if you have time check out my site you will find information on korean restaurant. Well when i get my blog running hope you come and check it out.8/10/2005 07:17:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Updating an ongoing saga.
God hit the Boy Scouts again today when he threw a tree down killing an 8 year old girl and wounding three others during a first aid class at the boy scout camp.
You can read the full article here.
We already talked about this phenomenon, but what the hell man? Maybe it's trees for girls and lightining for boys.
Since the Boy Scouts were already having serious recruitment challenges, I wonder if this will further impact it.
I guess the old saying "Be Prepared" should be replaced with something more reflective like "The Boy Scouts: We'll Make You A Man If You Live That Long"
We'll update this story as it happens - but for now, if you see any boy scouts or boy scout realted places or activities - stay away!|W|P|112371994658532713|W|P|The Dead Scouts.|W|P|8/11/2005 6:23 AM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|Scouting is becoming as dangerous as human mine detector and SWAT bomb disposal it seems.8/11/2005 1:01 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|More and more, and you have to wonder...8/11/2005 1:07 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|If only you had held off on your original post for just a FEW. MORE. DAYS...8/11/2005 11:38 PM|W|P|Big Dog|W|P|Pure coincidence. And a dash of media hype, since now they're "tuned in" to the story. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.8/12/2005 7:52 PM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|LOL, that's hilarious! It reminds me of an article on The Onion where they were making fun of low recruitment in the Marines. Here, I found it!
Marine Corps Shortens Slogan To 'The Few'
WASHINGTON, DC—In light of recruiting shortfalls, a near standstill in re-enlistment, and rock-bottom troop morale, U.S. Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Michael Hagee announced Monday that the Marines will alter their unofficial slogan, abbreviating it to the more accurate "The Few." Hagee said, "We are still the Marines, the premier combat arm of the U.S. military." The Marines will also change their motto to Semper Fidelis, Sic Non Sapienti, or "Always Faithful, But This Is Just Ridiculous."8/13/2005 4:28 PM|W|P|Martian Anthropologist|W|P|Apparently to "be prepared" doesn't include a little planning along the lines of not pitching tents under power lines.8/10/2005 06:57:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|This comes courtesy of our friend Deke - thanks Deke!
This would not apply to our enlightened Christian friends, only the hypocritical ones - plus it's damn funny.
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (a few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering, and yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.001% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.999% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.|W|P|112367563251684576|W|P|Top Ten Ways To Know You Are a Christian.|W|P|8/10/2005 8:01 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|oh I like that....can I get that on a T-Shirt.
It's so true, especially number 1. I enjoy having conversations with educated believers, but when I, an atheist, know more about their holy book.....
this just illustrates all the things I got frowned at for mentioning in catholic school...8/10/2005 8:44 AM|W|P|Ailyn|W|P|a tshirt? what a great idea. love the post Ruddy!8/10/2005 10:32 AM|W|P|Atomic Bombshell|W|P|Some of those are very interesting to chew on... Thanks!8/10/2005 11:52 AM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Ditto A.B.
And hey, my ex-husband will tell you, I can be just as hypocritical as the next one. NOT BEING HYPOCRITICAL is only a recent goal.8/10/2005 1:22 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|lol that's great8/10/2005 6:29 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|Hey! you could have written that list, I'm surprise you had to take it from somewhere else :)8/10/2005 8:03 PM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|I loved it but it would make an awfully long T-shirt.8/20/2005 3:48 PM|W|P|8/09/2005 07:30:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Thanks to everyone for making our religion discussion so great. I thought we could take a little break today and talk about another of my favorite topics - American Sex Phobia (this is where American people go completely mental when confronted with anything sexual).
In Los Angeles, a city not known for subtlety, a strip club owner decided to changes his promotional marquee sign from Live Nude Nude Nudes to "Vaginas R' Us"
Ahh those clever strip club owners.
As expected, people went nuts - I presume because there were no vaginas involved at this all-nude strip club prior to that sign going up.
The business association got all twitterpated and complained to the city, but alas the city could not do anything since "vagina" is not an obscene word. The club owner didn't believe there would be a problem since as he said "'The Vagina Monologues' had been on Broadway forever."
That's a damn good point isn't it? Why is "vagina" ok for a stage show, but not ok when it is promoting actual vaginas? This is simply another episode of American Sex Phobia.
Is it any wonder why Americans have so many hang ups about sex when we vilify it so much?
Well the business association decided to bring in the big guns and reported the strip club to Toys R' Us to see if there was trademark infringement that they could get involved in.
Jesus Christ people, are we so afraid of a word that it has to come to this? What do they think is going to happen. I for one wouldn't want my kid or any visiting dignitaries to be exposed to the word "vagina." They might ask questions and we'd have to explain to them what vaginas are and how we allow such filthy language. And while we are at it, we should probably get rid of all references to breasts - like chicken breast or turkey breast - since that makes me think of boobies. We will probably need to get all the beef tongue out of the Jewish Deli's since we all know what happens when tongues and breasts get together - and if the vaginas got involved...Pandemonium!
What kills me is that nothing has changed at this company. There are the same nude dancers inside that were advertised on the original marquee sign. Also the business association is not trying to close down the club, so the only objection is the use of the word "vagina". Would they prefer something more vulgar, but also equally non-obscene like The Snatch Shack or Pussy Palace(with pictures of cats) or Bush & Dick's(with the prez and VP)? Remember, it can always be worse.
This reminds me so much of the Jello Biafra disclaimer from The Offspring's Ixnay on the Hombre, so we'll close with that:
Welcome to the Disclaimer!
This American apple pie institution known as parental discretion
will cleanse any sense of innuendo or sarcasm from the lyrics that
might actually make you think and will also insult your intelligence at the same time.
So protect your family! This album contains explicit depictions of things which are real.
These real things are commonly known as life. So if it sounds sarcastic, don't take it seriously.
If it sounds dangerous, do not try this at home or at all.
And if it offends you, just don't listen to it.
*Original reporting by The Associated Press.*
No vaginas were harmed during the writing of this post.|W|P|112359130701790283|W|P|Stop Being an Engorged Phallus.|W|P|8/09/2005 9:25 AM|W|P|
Seriously though---people in this country are nuts (I include my self in this broad genralization).
It continuely boggles my brain that in a land of supposedly free people there are so many explicit and implicit things a person cannot think, say or do.
Schiziod is what we are---its ok to blow out someones brains on prime time, but god forbid it ya see a little titty!
Ok-enough ranting. Is there anything we can actually do about this? I'm mean besides telling the moral fasiscts (sp?) to "Shut the fuck up and piss off." Something a little more constructive maybe?8/09/2005 9:41 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I suppose there are alot of practical things to do. First off make sure you don't propagate this crap by getting caught up in it. Secondly talk about it with friends and others who support it - maybe even get a "Boobs Not bombs" bumper sticker.
On a grander scale, i guess it boils down to trying to be open about things and not keeping them bottled up as a culture. We need to stem the tide of our repression by being open about it - not in a free love kind of way but by showing that natural things(like sex and bodies and intimacy) are good and unnatural things (like violence, murder and destruction) are not. We need to switch our values.
Personally I'd love to do my doctoral thesis on this schizm between sex and violence in America - it uttlerly fascinates me.
Ultimately the more we discuss it the more people will learn that naked people aren't the antichrist and they aren't coming to "get them."8/09/2005 11:16 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I've never understood the constant hypocrisy in North America (oh, it's in Canada too, but worse-except Quebec...)
I mean, the Janet Jackson thing was a huge deal, but the mostly naked cheerleaders aren't? Just like how female frontal nudity is ok, but male isn't?
I tend to believe that if children are raised and taught with open dialogue about sexuality, with REALISTIC names and consequences, we'd be well on our way to a better society. The fact that it has taken me two years to call my genitals by their proper name for my daughter without feeling odd is a clear example of the contradictions inherent in our society. Because I'll turn around and talk about my kinks without blinking.
And it's a strip club. I actually think that's an accurate name for it...
lord.....I would love to be a sex educator, but I'd kill someone. I really would.8/09/2005 11:59 AM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I love that you make me think.8/09/2005 1:10 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|/me shakes head.
What's funny is that there is a hypocrisy when it comes to sex. You don't hear (as many) complaints about classical art, where there are more boobs in one piece than playboy would be willing to put in about 10 pages, and male genetalia is celebrated because it is a sculpture.
What's the difference? I mean seriously? If you shelter kids from reality you'll have just as hard a time explaining great art as you would driving by a place with that name.
So let's all get together and watch monte python's meaning of life.8/09/2005 1:41 PM|W|P|gravitybear|W|P|Just remember Aty. Gen. Ashcroft and the statue, folks.8/09/2005 4:50 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|He doesn't even makes us think gob, he thinks for us :)8/10/2005 6:37 AM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|Hey I'd shop there, especially on buy one get one free day.
Truly masterful marketing, are you sure YOU had nothing to do with it Rudi?8/10/2005 11:34 AM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|Fear - which most of the time equates delusion. As does Worry.8/08/2005 07:06:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Since the burning bush thing worked out so well, I guess Jesus and Co. have decided to go back to what works by appearing in a tree last week.
That's right, a lumberjack in Bosnia cut the limb off a tree and lo and behold, an image of Jesus turned up in the cut section of the branch.
Ever since the branch had revealed Jesus hiding in the tree, pilgrims have been flocking to the tree to kneel and pray before it, leaving money and cutting off pieces of bark to take home.
I guess this brings new meaning to the idea that God is everywhere.
But what does this say about people? I know you know that I am once again going to call bullshit on this, but to me the higher issue is what is going on with people that they not only take this kind of thing seriously, but actually participate in growing it?
Do we really think that God and Jesus and Mary and Satan are all a part of some quasi "Where's Waldo" vaudvillian act?
And isn't it amusing that the so-called "images" are representative of artworks created by renaissance artists vs. what would have actually been reality. Jesus is not a white guy from California - if anything, he probably looked a lot more like Osama bin Laden than the guys from ZZ Top. This is why the whole "image" thing is so ridiculous.
But apart from that, is the holy family so obtuse that they need to turn up on tree branches, statues and grilled cheese sandwiches rather than just coming out an appearing. And do we really think that the presence of an "image" somehow imparts some special properties. And furthermore, wouldn't this violate the whole "graven images" commandment? Yes, Iniquity for everyone!
Lets think about this for a second. Is someone implying that a guy who says that God lit a bush on fire and then spoke to him is any different from another guy in New York, 2000 years later, saying that an Italian angel brought him golden plates written in Angel language and then took them back to heaven(that's Joseph Smith from the Mormons in case you didn't get it)? So with that in mind, is it really so far fetched that some guy in Sarajevo could say that God appeared to him on a piece of toast and gave him the new 21st century gospel. Would we really have any right to say no? (but of course we would)
All this nonsense aside, what does this say about people? Are we really this desperate for faith and inspiration that we are looking to images in trees and food for it? How can we see the benefits of basking in the comforting glow of the lord if his followers will seemingly take any occurrence no matter how ridiculous and run off half cocked to sanctify it?
Do you really think that Jesus would want you to run around praying to inanimate objects and acting ridiculous rather than using the brains God gave you? Doesn't it give more glory to God if his subjects are off thinking critically and making the world a better place? It would seem to me that blind faith is not the preferable state for a faithful person who is an inspiration to others.
So if I am going to invent a holy porpoise for myself, I'm going to say that mine is to ask the questions and get people to think. My lack of faith and incessant disbelief is all part of the plan - I'll be Doubting Rudicus. Everyone else should go out and think critically and find their purpose too.
And for those of you who would rather be told what to do rather than think for yourself, I took a whiz this morning and the pattern of pee bubbles formed the image of John The Baptist, so please come pray at my loo and leave money. If you stay there long enough you may get the privilege of being baptized again by some stray "holy water."|W|P|112350329853556445|W|P|The Almighty Goes Back To His Roots.|W|P|8/08/2005 8:12 AM|W|P|Ailyn|W|P|i want to be baptised!!!! oh wait, maybe that was a "golden showers" fetish. seriously though, things are definitely crazy and getting wierder. wish i can profit in the graven images department as well. i did have an english muffin the other morning and after spreading jelly on it, it did resemble a person. jesus, god, the holy mary, marilyn manson, someone. i decided to eat it and i felt filled inside. 2 point for me, but no money8/08/2005 12:43 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|So can you actually see this one? I'm getting tired of the "jesus" faces and then having to turn my head upside down, close one eye, squint with the other and still need a dose of something hallucinaginic to even pretend to see it.
At least we had a decent one out here on a door not too long ago. Some stain from cleaning, and I looked at the tv and said, "yep... I can see that one." But geez, how desperate do you have to be to be inspecting food before eating it to see if it's been blessed with a funny shaped burn?8/08/2005 5:02 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|Those stories about finding images of the virgin mary or baby jesus either in trees, pictures, windows, candles, or whatever, are always so hilarious. The Latin culture seems to be an expert in those matters, I'm always amazed how those stories are still making the news. Don't they have anything better to say in the news, are they just too lazy to do true research?8/08/2005 7:21 PM|W|P|8/09/2005 2:53 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I agree that Christians are their own worst advertisement.
Rudicous, I just saw a poster I know you'll appreciate:
And on the eighth day, man created God.8/05/2005 10:01:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|This whole thing with the Boy Scouts got me thinking about God and the World.
I've been thinking. God and Jesus were pretty active a couple thousand years ago - but what have they been doing since then? It doesn't seem like they've been very active lately. They didn't intervene during the tsunami or the many hurricanes, earthquakes and volcanos that have killed tens of thousands over the years.
They also didn't intervene during the 9/11 attacks, nor the Stalinist purges, nor Hiroshima, they didn't even get involved during the holocaust when the chosen people were being systematically exterminated. God hasn't gotten involved in mid-east peace or the war on terror. And even going further back, did nothing about the plague, the crusades or any of the other wars on earth.
So what happened? Where did God and Jesus go? And what the hell have they been up to. What's it going to take to get them back involved in the world like they used to be?
How do you square the idea that an omnipotent or omniscient being has been AWOL for 2000 years? God used to be so involved that he would take notice of individual shepherds and local magistrates and Jesus would go to small villages and worry that they had enough to eat and drink. If they can traffic in that kind of minutiae, why on God's green earth couldn't they divert a Tsunami or make a few planes fly the wrong way?
And what about the prophets? There was all the pre-Jesus prophets and then Jesus. Do you mean to tell me that there hasn't been any need for prophets in 2000 years? How can that be? And nowhere in the Bible does it mention England or The Americas or China, so what are the rules applying to them? Is there nothing to tell us what to do there? Muhammad came along a few hundred years later and did a lot of work, but Christians don't recognize him as a prophet of God. So is everyone after Jesus a false Prophet? Wouldn't that be a bit strange? But then again, even if that weren't true, would we even listen long enough to hear a new prophet?
It certainly didn't help Joseph Smith who is widely considered a con-man to those outside of the Mormon church. What about David Koresh - we were so threatened by him that we fragged his ass back to kingdom come. Pretty much anyone who has ever claimed to have had congress with God since Jesus has been viewed as a charlatan.
How do you know who speaks for God?
I often thought it would be a funny story to follow Jesus as he tried to do the second coming and see what would happen to him. I guarantee you everyone would think he was crazy or a fake - not only that, but I bet they would hold him to the very same burden of proof that the atheists and agnostics have been screaming about for years - talk about poetic justice.
So what do we think of all this? Where is God? If he can come around to knock off some Boy Scouts for who knows why - where was he when faithful people really needed him? I know we can't seek to understand the wisdom of God, but what's he been doing. All he had to do was wave a hand to make things change, he wouldn't even have to stop playing Xbox for more than a second to do it - so in 2000 years, you'd think he would find the time to do some work.
C'mon God, if you've got time to lean, you've got time to clean.
Seems to me like God's doing a pretty crap job of taking care of things, and if he retired and left it all to the kid, then he's not doing a very good job either. Maybe we need a change. Maybe we need to hold our deity to a higher set of standards. We have "no child left behind" which comes with more benchmarks for little kids than we would ever hold our God to. I think we need to give God a performance review. What do you think Donald?
Donald: "You're Fired!"
Zeus will be appointed as interim managing deity. The Rudicus Report has agreed to interview candidates for the position of Almighty - please forward your resume or CV to email@example.com.|W|P|112310498532646777|W|P|4th Quarter Prophets are Down.|W|P|8/05/2005 11:54 AM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|Have you read Good Omens?8/05/2005 12:52 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|Maybe X-Box really is that good...8/05/2005 1:01 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|After I prayed for forgiveness on your behalf ("Lord, he knows not what he does!"), I decided I'd write.
God is not visibly working in your reality because, in your reality, you've chosen that he does not exist.
The quickest way to see God working is to believe He works. I see it. Even through all the evil you just mentioned, I have seen God work.
Have you heard the saying about the two dogs, one representing "good" and one representing "evil"? They are inside you, constantly at odds (fighting), and sometimes one seems to be winning. Which one? Whichever one you feed most.
Let me tie that saying into my point.
If you want to see "good" working in your life, believe in good, "feed" the good, BE the good.
If all you see around you is the "evil", and you don't like that, you may want to stop focussing on, believing in, "feeding" the "evil".
There are things happening in our world far worse (in my opinion) that tsunamis. It's horrible what those people have endured, how many were lost, and the mountain they will now have to climb to regain some semblance of their former life. But, to me, it's not "evil". It just IS.
A child right now is locked in his bedroom closet, having not eaten for days, without clothes, and defacating on himself. That's evil.
Where did God and Jesus go? They are right in front of you, next to you, all around you. Believe they exist and you will begin to see them work.8/05/2005 11:12 PM|W|P|The Lone Rangers|W|P|Rudi God set us up and then left us to our own devices. That's no matter how you define God.
qob: he knowest what he does, and loves it, but I agree with your definition of evil.8/06/2005 7:47 AM|W|P|Martian Anthropologist|W|P|I prayed for you as well. After waiting for an answer, I got none, then realized that God does not exist.
Thanks for your post on my blog. I did throw up a link to you, also.
Regarding this entry: clever title! You wrote: I bet they would hold him to the very same burden of proof that the atheists and agnostics have been screaming about for years - talk about poetic justice.
Yeah. Wouldn't that be ironic?8/06/2005 7:35 PM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|What QOB described is self-hypnotism.
Our reality is extremely subjective. Put on a pair of weird glasses and your perception of things is entirely different. Look at the sky in ultraviolet light and you see two suns and almost no moon. Look at New York city through a powerful electron microscope and you see particles as far apart as stars, but no New York city.
The mind is powerful enough to obviously put us into delusion. My Uncle is fried from drugs - once he was arrested for seeing his family as people with monkey heads and wings and tried to shoot at them. At the time, he was quite sure what he was seeing was real.
So, apart from the fact that I think God is a crock, it's fine to believe whatever you want. People can only share realities and claim your's is false. Claiming your's is the ultimate, however, and influencing others', is wrong.
Unbiased opinion is impossible. This is why I laugh when judges say they do this, and then people worry about a judge's personal views when they are elected to the Supreme Court.
People always, always say "we are right about interpreting God", and then you have people who say "I see God working in all ways - even though I don't like what you're saying, I can pick something that sounds like how God may or may not be working through you." You cannot prove it. But what I believe in I can show and prove to you. Maybe it requires a little discipline on your part, but I assure you I will not say "feel until you believe". That is self-hypnosis. That is hypocrisy. It is no different than people "teaching" astral projection who say "feel this until you are". It is taking thousands and thousands of opinions, tearing apart what you don't like and adding in your own - which are influenced by thousands and thousands of other opinions.
The result cannot possibly be truth.
One thing I have found common in all human beings, however, is logic. Whether or not people accept this is what brought forth religion - for cleary the contradictions existing about God in all religions, even in its own Holy Text, screams that God is illogical and impossible.
If anyone says nothing is impossible, I'll scream - because they just uttered an impossibility. That is logic. That is ration. A is A, and it is undeniable.
With simple logic and reason we know that God does not exist.
With simple logic and reason we may live life to the fullest without the need for a God. We may die happy without needing the assurance of a Heaven.
We may live without self-sacrifice in servance to our "fellow man-kind" and a very demanding God who contradicts himself in all of his "appearances", whether by miracle or from the word of a so-called Prophet.8/06/2005 7:37 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|Yes, Good Omens is a MUST read for this post.
Since the road to hell is paved with lesser demons after all....8/06/2005 7:39 PM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I'm wondering though, how if "god" is right beside me, above me, etc, and everyone else, and said child in the closet chokes on their own vomit because they live in florida and no one calls when she screams, and she dies, what kind of PERSON wants the god who stands doing nothing?8/08/2005 5:28 AM|W|P|Gilbert Koh|W|P|Ah, Ruddy.
I feel so not like commenting because you know how it is with me ..... Once I really get started, it will be nearly impossible for me to stop.
What the hell.
If you assume (yes, yes, all mereassumptions) that the soul is eternal and indestructible (as we previously discussed in your other now-defunct blog) and that in any event, most souls are going to go through an extensive cycle of reincarnation (Buddhist; Hindu & Judaism concept; some Christians also find vague support for the idea in the Bible - most especially via the prophet Elijah) -
then you see that all the "badness" and "suffering" you mentioned is not necessarily as "evil" as you might, at first glance, intuitively believe it to be; nor necessarily the byproducts of a lazy, negligent or uncaring God.
Eg if you, like the prince who became known as Buddha, had had at least 500 past lives, then you must have physically died at least 500 times. Nevertheless your soul continues to exist and cannot be harmed by any of the appalling events you have referred to (tsunami etc). Each of your bodies suffers pain and is destroyed (and those bodies which experience a particularly brutal death will accordingly suffer much more pain), but you already know that your body is pretty much a short-lived thing anyway, lasting at most 80, 90 or 100 years - a blink of an eye, really, considering that the soul, for all intents and purposes, lasts much, much, MUCH longer.
And if you could truly realise that you have lived and died 500 hundred times, well, your idea of what constitues a "horrific death" might alter somewhat. It really might not upset you too much to know that out of your 500 deaths, 20 or 30 of them were rather nasty (eg tsunami-related). It just happens - you know?
The body is the illusion. The pain is the illusion. Alas, we're all stuck with the illusions, except for the Enlightened Few. Anyway, your illusions (and mine) will end soon. We're both 30+ now. Probably just another 40 years, 50 years, maybe 60 years, and we'll see the light.
Or as the Tibetans call it, the "Clear Light". In your part of the world, your NDE experiencers call it the "light at the end of the tunnel".8/08/2005 6:00 AM|W|P|Gilbert Koh|W|P|In defence of qob (well, some kind of feeble, meandering defence, at any rate) -
I would just say this. Qob is suggesting to you the experiential way of knowing God. I think it is a valid mode (some would say, the only mode) of knowing God.
In the past, I have pointed to you examples of many things whose existence you yourself, Mr Rudicus, believe or know to be true (via the experiential mode) but which science cannot prove the existence thereof.
(For example, you said that you had fallen in love four times in your life, but I say that this cannot be scientifically verified - there is no way to verify the existence of a phenomenon such as "falling in love". I also asked you to mentally visualise your mother's face, and you did, but I then informed you that according to the logical/scientific way of thinking, we cannot accept that this event really happened - because science has no way to verify that you did visualise your mother's face.)
I invite you to consider the possibility that while neither God, mental visualisation nor falling into love can be scientifically verified or logically determined to be true -
nevertheless there are people who know God to be true, just as you know your ability to fall in love, and your ability to visualise your mother's face, is true. It's the experiential mode, my friend.
I'm not offering any conclusions here, just opening up some room for further exploration. Qob's statement here:
"God is not visibly working in your reality because, in your reality, you've chosen that he does not exist."
... can be picked apart in a thousand ways, giving rise to a thousand different shades of meanings. For example,
- if God is not visibly working in your reality because you've chosen not see him;
does this mean that he does not work at all in your reality? Or that he works in your reality, but you simply cannot see him? If the latter, then does it really matter if you do not see him? (Since he will be working anyway).
And what if God is reality? (A possibility I personally like). What if God does not WORK in your reality, simply because he IS reality, yours and mine, utterly and completely? (Which then leads us to contemplate our notions of God).
What if I am God?
And what if you are God? (After all, if God is everywhere, including inside each of us, as your pastor likes to tell you, surely that makes us God too).
The self-knowledge that you are X is not essential to your being X. For example, it is entirely possible that I could go through life being an utter idiot / a selfish bastard / a shallow person, without ever realising it.
So what if you are God? And everything you do and say is actually an act of God?
Perhaps your constant pronouncement of your atheism and your criticisms of religion are all part of God's ultimate grand plan. A tiny little part, most likely, but a part anyway. For example, your criticisms of religion may lead some of its followers, at least, to question what is not right about their religious practices or beliefs, and thereby inspire them to evolve their practices or beliefs to a more preferable state.
But I drift. I told you not to get me started.8/08/2005 6:35 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Thank you Gilbert as always for your well thought out and useful commentary. I especially liked your last paragraph, because in a nutshell I think it best sums up my intentions.
I have never wanted to get anyone to leave their faith or disbelieve. And even though I do, I fully realize that my percptions and understandings are no different than anyone else's where unprovable things are involved. Frankly, if I were to die and my one contribution to this world would be to get a few people to think about their faith and question thier practices and inspire them to evolve into a more preferable(i.e. not hypocritical) state. Then I can be forever happy.
As I have always said, belief is not the problem, neither is God or Buddha or Odin - it's just what people do intheir names and the blindly questoning reality twisting nonsense where I draw the line.
However as I have said before, I think it is that very faith that prohibits people from actually evolving their religion. If you admit that your religion needs to be revamed in it's practices, then you have to admit that it wasn't perfect to begin with, and if you admit that, then you have to admit that the God who created it is not perfect for all time. Now all of that to me would be fine - considering the changes in strategy from the Old Testament to the New Testament. That shows to me that God knows he's not always right and can make mistakes - thus if people would just accept that then I think they could let their beleif flow into something more useful and effective. But that would mean giving up their precious absolutes - and I think that is too scary for most to consider.
Good stuff though.8/08/2005 10:23 AM|W|P|
Just wondering.8/08/2005 12:47 PM|W|P|jpe|W|P|God is not visibly working in your reality because, in your reality, you've chosen that he does not exist.
To use technical terms, this is nutty. Or, at least, as nutty as thinking that vacuum elves will clean my apartment if only I have faith.
At any rate, I was reading a Zizek book recently that discussed this very problem at length. IIRC, his point was that Christianity inverts the standard direction of religious faith: rather than it being necessary that we have faith in God, it's God that has to have faith in us to carry out what he began. God's impotence reverses the direction of faith after the resurrection.8/08/2005 12:47 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Ooh, that was a great conversation. Lots of participation and different viewpoints. Nice.8/08/2005 1:00 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Wow, JPE, let's dig a little deeper.
I'm not suggesting that God's not working in Rudicous' life. I'm stating that Rudicous does not see WHERE or HOW God is working in his life because Rudicous does not believe in God. It seems naturally impossible, to me, that Rudicous would see and could name all of the ways in which God has affected/effected his life.
As for your "elves" analogy, it has no merit. It's simply argumentative, and it belittles my Christian belief. As I've said before, who am I to not be belittled. As long as you know that's what you're doing. I come from a place where God exists, God IS. You don't. That's fine. We can both participate in a healthy discussion if we remember and respect that.8/09/2005 6:46 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Anonymous - I have read Ken Wilbur - did you have a comment involving him?
With respect to my seeing God etc. QOB's point is noted - it could be that due to my disbelief I have an ecclesiatical version of hysterical blindness that prohibits me from seeing God's works in the world.
But then that concept begs the question "does it matter?"
Presumably life will go on for me much in the same way regardless of whether I believe, so I would say - "does it matter" if I beleive or not? I am fully aware for most things, when there is a gap in knowledge or understanding, it is the nature of people to fill that gap with God. If we don't know how or why something happens then we attribute it to God. Most people regardless of faith do this - whther the God they attribute to is the Christian/Jewish/Islamic god or whether it's Buddha, the Universe, the Tao or Quetzaqatl.
If I can get through life by filling the gaps with something other than God, then that says to me that everyone is at liberty to explain the universe in their own way - as long as they don't infringe on others (which is where my religion problem comes in). But barring that, it seems like everyone can get along if they were to come to the realization that there is not absolutes on any level of this discussion and noone can know the "truth" so as long as your "truth" works for you and doesn'r cock up my "truth" we're good.
We all have beliefs, some strongly held - but if we can't establish the existence of a FlimFlomph, there is really no use is arguing about what color it is.8/09/2005 9:16 AM|W|P|
Just that he has some interesting ideas that might help in this discussion. "A Sociable God" is a good place to start.8/09/2005 11:43 AM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I love you, Rudicous! You are exactly who you strive to be: a person who challenges others to think outside their own "box". And you've always been so respectful - I truly appreciate our conversations. Thank you.8/10/2005 12:20 PM|W|P| |W|P|Re: Ken Wilbur. |W|P|Anybody here read Ken Wilber? |W|P|It is rather interesting that Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Wiccans, etc, never see their deities in spaghetti sauce, or under bridges. Christians are their own worst advertisement. - Deke |W|P|hee hee you said Boobies! |W|P|Excellent top ten list; I'd like a poster! Actually, I think it should be published in the Op/Ed section of every newspaper in the country. |W|P|I don't really think it is an either/or answer, but a both/and. "Business as usual" is "The Man". The whole system is geared to keep those with money and power in money and power. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a conscious thing, but that the system "grew" that way. |W|P|It is kind of a brilliant idea...some enterprising soul should co-opt it and use it to teach evolution, or the scientific method, or I don't know something fun like how to hula hoop. |W|P|Sorry man, I just don't get it. There are Arabs living in Israel. Why then do we have to have a Jew-free "State of Palestine"? |W|P|I've stumbled across your blog when I done some giant food research in Google. You're doing a pretty nice job |W|P|you know what you eat has a lot to do with ones emotional stability and cognitive ability, so I wonder how the whole processed food trend is affecting our minds and souls? |W|P|yet simultaneously there is an obssesion with health and fitness... |W|P|affiliate gambling sports is great |W|P|ABC=Assasination Broadcast Corporation. All assasination. All the time.